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multiplus_faq [2019-01-07 21:32]
guy_stewart
multiplus_faq [2020-06-23 06:05] (current)
mvader [Software Changes]
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-Some generators are more suitable than others for use with inverter/chargers, please talk to your local Victron Dealer before purchasing a generator and they may be able to advise you on locally available units that have been tested and are known to be good.+Some generators are more suitable than others for use with inverter/chargers, please talk to [[https://www.victronenergy.com/where-to-buy|your local Victron Dealer]] before purchasing a generator and they may be able to advise you on locally available units that have been tested and are known to be good. It is recommended to get a generator from a supplier that is local to you for issues and servicing.
  
 For example; some things to look for when selecting a generator is a high quality alternator and AVR (auto voltage regulation). For example; some things to look for when selecting a generator is a high quality alternator and AVR (auto voltage regulation).
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 If your generator is smaller than the recommended size for your inverter/charger, you will definitely need to adjust the settings on the inverter/charger and reduce the AC input current limit, and/or a DC charge current limit to prevent overloading the generator. If your generator is smaller than the recommended size for your inverter/charger, you will definitely need to adjust the settings on the inverter/charger and reduce the AC input current limit, and/or a DC charge current limit to prevent overloading the generator.
  
 +If you do want an inverter based generator (eg for noise reasons under lower loading), get one that is at least 30% larger than required than an equivalent AVR based model to help prevent nuisance overloads.
 +
 +It is also important to look at the DUTY CYCLE rating of the generator. Some generators are marketed for their peak output, but may only be designed to sustain 50% of that peak load rating for longer periods of time. 
 +
 +Battery charging is a very heavy use case load for a generator, so make sure it is up to the job, and the installation has plenty of good airflow and ventilation when operating to allow for heat to dissipate. 
 +
 +Some generators are only designed to operate for several hours, before requiring time to rest and cool down. Make sure this limitation is part of your load profile and system design. 
 ==== Operation ==== ==== Operation ====
  
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-==== Software Changes ====+==== Software Settings ====
  
  
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 Warning: changing these settings will allow to feed-through current that may be of insufficient quality for the electrical requirements of your equipment. Warning: changing these settings will allow to feed-through current that may be of insufficient quality for the electrical requirements of your equipment.
  
-For information on VE-Configure and how to get started, please see this [[https://www.victronenergy.com/support-and-downloads/software|VE Configure Software page]], or contact your [[https://www.victronenergy.com/where-to-buy|local Victron dealer.]]+For information on VEConfigure and how to get started, please see this [[https://www.victronenergy.com/support-and-downloads/software|VE Configure Software page]], or contact your [[https://www.victronenergy.com/where-to-buy|local Victron dealer.]]
  
-====== 1. In the “Grid” tab of VE-Configure: ======+====== 1. In the “Grid” tab of VEConfigure: ======
  
  {{:veconfigure:grid_tab.jpg?nolink&400|}}  {{:veconfigure:grid_tab.jpg?nolink&400|}}
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 **AC low disconnect:** low limit: below this value, the MultiPlus will disconnect (default = 180Vac). **AC low disconnect:** low limit: below this value, the MultiPlus will disconnect (default = 180Vac).
  
-On generators where the output voltage drops under load, setting this value to a higher value can help solve shutdowns on overload.+On generators where the output voltage drops under load, setting this value to a higher value can help resolve inverter overload shutdowns.
  
-**AC Low connect:** minimum value: at this value or any higher value, the MultiPlus will reconnect after having disconnected (default = 187Vac).+The reason this happens is that the Multi will synchronise and follow the generator voltage as it sags.
  
 +If the generator is disconnected under load (either due to low-voltage disconnection, stalling, lack of fuel, etc) then when the Multi switches back to inverter mode; it must immediately supply all the power required by the loads at that same low voltage (and subsequent higher current).
 +
 +As overload is driven by current, not power, this can result in an overload.
 +
 +By increasing this minimum voltage level, you tell the inverter/charger switch to inverter mode sooner, at higher voltage and thus lower AC current, and potentially prevent the overload from occurring.
 +
 +**AC Low connect:** minimum value: at this value or any higher value, the MultiPlus will reconnect after having disconnected (default = 187Vac).
 ===== 1.4 Maximum voltage levels ===== ===== 1.4 Maximum voltage levels =====
  
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 ===== 1.5 Loss of mains detection (LOM) ===== ===== 1.5 Loss of mains detection (LOM) =====
 +
 +Loss of mains detection will push and pull at voltage and frequency to see if there is still a generating source. This process can cause issues with some generators, or high impedance connections to generators. 
 +
 +For large and stable Generators Type B LOM will work, and is safer.
 +However, if you are experiencing issues with voltage, frequency or power fluctuations, you may wish to try Disabling LOM.
 +
 +**Disabling LOM**
 +
 +Disabling the LOM on an input connected to the grid is only allowed when other external safety equipment is installed.
 +Disabling the LOM on an input connected to generator can be done, but then other methods / warning signs / physical lockout safety measures must be provided. Ensuring that any installer that will work on the generator, wiring or system, will make sure to also switch off or otherwise disconnect the Inverter/charger system.
  
 For Full information on Loss of Mains detection, please see [[ve.bus:grid-codes-and-loss-of-mains-detection|this more detailed explanation.]] For Full information on Loss of Mains detection, please see [[ve.bus:grid-codes-and-loss-of-mains-detection|this more detailed explanation.]]
  
  
-===== Example configuration in VEConfigure =====+**Example configuration in VEConfigure**
  
   * A generator that requires LOM to be disabled.   * A generator that requires LOM to be disabled.
   * Generator on AC in 1, and grid on AC in 2, as recommended.   * Generator on AC in 1, and grid on AC in 2, as recommended.
  
-{{ :ve.bus:grid-code.png?direct |}}+{{::lom_generator.jpg?direct&400|}}
  
  
  
- +====== 2. In the “General” tab of VEConfigure: ======
-====== 2. In the “General” tab of VE-Configure: ======+
  
 {{::veconfigure:general_tab.jpg?nolink&400|}} {{::veconfigure:general_tab.jpg?nolink&400|}}
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 ===== 2.2 AC Input Current Limit ===== ===== 2.2 AC Input Current Limit =====
  
-The charger on the Multiplus is very powerful. If you have an existing generator that is not able to supply the maximum charging current of the Multi, you will need to adjust the AC Input Current Limit in the General Tab of VE-Configure.+The charger on the Multiplus is very powerful. If you have an existing generator that is not able to supply the maximum charging current of the Multi, you will need to adjust the AC Input Current Limit in the General Tab of VEConfigure.
  
 A reasonable starting point for the AC Current input limit is 80% of the generator capacity in Watts. For example:  A reasonable starting point for the AC Current input limit is 80% of the generator capacity in Watts. For example: 
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-====== 3. In the "Charger" tab of VE-Configure: ======+====== 3. In the "Charger" tab of VEConfigure: ======
  
 {{:veconfigure:charger_tab.jpg?nolink&400|}} {{:veconfigure:charger_tab.jpg?nolink&400|}}
  
-**Derating of the power factor**+===== 3.1 Derating of the power factor =====
  
 Some generators have a waveform which makes it difficult to charge with the normal charge mechanism. Through activating the "**Weak AC input**" function, another mechanism is used which will enable the MultiPlus to charge under practically any condition. Some generators have a waveform which makes it difficult to charge with the normal charge mechanism. Through activating the "**Weak AC input**" function, another mechanism is used which will enable the MultiPlus to charge under practically any condition.
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 This leading or lagging power factor will have the effect of demanding more kVa from the generator for the same or less DC Watts delivered to the batteries. You may need to further reduce the DC Current Limit in the Charger tab of VEConfigure if the generator continues to overload after changing this setting. This leading or lagging power factor will have the effect of demanding more kVa from the generator for the same or less DC Watts delivered to the batteries. You may need to further reduce the DC Current Limit in the Charger tab of VEConfigure if the generator continues to overload after changing this setting.
 +
 +Effectively, the total charge current possible will be less that the rated maximum charge current output of the charger (under normal conditions) when weak AC is disabled.
  
  
 **Important note:** **Important note:**
  
-A detailed description of all settings is available in the VE-Configure help menu, and more instructions are available in our manuals.+A detailed description of all settings is available in the VEConfigure help menu, and more instructions are available in our manuals
 + 
 +====== 4. In the “Inverter” tab of VEConfigure: ====== 
 + 
 +===== 4.1 PowerAssist ===== 
 + 
 +The [[https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/White-paper-Achieving-the-impossible-EN.pdf|PowerAssist feature]] can be extremely useful, however it restricts the minimum AC input current limit and this may exceed your generators ability to supply. The [[https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2018/04/20/multiplus-quattro-inverter-chargers-improved-current-limits/|exact restriction varies between models - see here for the list.]] 
 + 
 +If you have a small generator and have trouble getting connected or staying connected, Disable PowerAssist to allow the device to reduce the AC input current limit.  
 + 
 + 
 + 
 +====== Still not connecting? ====== 
 + 
 +If the unit is still not connecting,  
 + 
 +Check the VE.Bus Monitor and AC Input Connection timer 
 + 
 +{{::veconfige_107016584.png?direct|}} 
 + 
 +With Multi firmwares xxyy460 and up, VEConfig will indicate why the AC Input is rejected and will also show an indication of the remaining waiting time as a blue bar. 
 + 
 +After the waiting time the unit will connect to AC input provided that there is no assistant which prevents the unit from connecting to grid and that the required relay test is performed. 
 + 
 +Switch the Multi over to Charger only mode.  
 + 
 +Try with a different generator. 
 + 
 +As troubleshooting and correcting these faults have serious safety implications, they are best discussed with a local installer who has appropriate electrical qualifications, or your Victron Dealer. 
 + 
 +There can be issues with generators with Residual Current Devices (RCD's), control electronics or circuit breakers. There is some discussion about troubleshooting these issues on this [[https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/1702/multiplus-with-generator-and-residual-current-devi.html|Victron Community Question - Multiplus With Generator And Residual Current Device]]. 
 + 
 +Simplify the AC wiring, With everything safely shut down and tested for voltage, disconnect the AC-Output active, neutral and earth. Direct wire in the generator connections, with no other bus bar links. A common neutral can cause issues. 
 + 
 +If there is still no connection, contact your dealer or distributor. Tell them the steps that you have taken already to attempt to get it to work and they can help from there.
  
  
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 [[https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/White-paper-Using-the-MultiPlus-to-reduce-operating-cost-of-a-generator-EN.pdf|Using the Multiplus to reduce operating cost of a generator]] - Fuel Saving White-paper. [[https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/White-paper-Using-the-MultiPlus-to-reduce-operating-cost-of-a-generator-EN.pdf|Using the Multiplus to reduce operating cost of a generator]] - Fuel Saving White-paper.
 +
 +[[https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/VE_Marine_generator_test_RVA_07-jan-2008.pdf|Marine Generator Test]] - Detailed testing and the application of marine diesel powered generators in small hybrid power systems
  
 [[https://www.victronenergy.com/live/auto-generator-start-stop:start|Automatic Generator start/stop]] - Outline and reference for generator auto-start functionality in Victron systems. [[https://www.victronenergy.com/live/auto-generator-start-stop:start|Automatic Generator start/stop]] - Outline and reference for generator auto-start functionality in Victron systems.
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 [[https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Honda%20white%20paper%20GB.pdf|Victron Inverter/Chargers and Honda Generators]] [[https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Honda%20white%20paper%20GB.pdf|Victron Inverter/Chargers and Honda Generators]]
 +
 +[[https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2018/04/20/multiplus-quattro-inverter-chargers-improved-current-limits/|MultiPlus & Quattro Inverter/Chargers: Minimum AC Input Current Limits]]
 +
  
  
  
-===== Disqus =====+===== DISQUS =====
 ~~DISQUS~~ ~~DISQUS~~
multiplus_faq.1546893123.txt.gz · Last modified: 2019-01-07 21:32 by guy_stewart