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multiplus_faq [2017-10-03 08:24]
guystewart [3. In the Charger tab of VE-Configure:]
multiplus_faq [2019-06-11 07:03] (current)
guy_stewart
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-What to do when a MultiPlus does not accept generator power +__What ​to do when a MultiPlus, or Quattro, ​does not accept generator power 
-----+__
  
 Power supply from a generator is typically more variable than a power supply from shore or the main grid. The MultiPlus is sensitive to this and will reject power that is outside of it's programmed settings causing the unit to not connect, synchronise or charge. ​ Power supply from a generator is typically more variable than a power supply from shore or the main grid. The MultiPlus is sensitive to this and will reject power that is outside of it's programmed settings causing the unit to not connect, synchronise or charge. ​
  
-**Selecting a Generator**+==== Selecting a Generator ​==== 
  
 Some generators are more suitable than others for use with inverter/​chargers,​ please talk to your local Victron Dealer before purchasing a generator and they may be able to advise you on locally available units that have been tested and are known to be good. Some generators are more suitable than others for use with inverter/​chargers,​ please talk to your local Victron Dealer before purchasing a generator and they may be able to advise you on locally available units that have been tested and are known to be good.
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 Inverter based generators have a characteristic where the motor continues to run even if the unit has electronically overloaded and no longer delivering power. It may appear that the generator is operating and the system is charging when it isn't. These units are also more easily overloaded by surge loads, as they are electronically limited rather than mechanically. ​ Inverter based generators have a characteristic where the motor continues to run even if the unit has electronically overloaded and no longer delivering power. It may appear that the generator is operating and the system is charging when it isn't. These units are also more easily overloaded by surge loads, as they are electronically limited rather than mechanically. ​
  
 +Make sure that the generator, inverter/​charger and regional area frequency and voltage all match. ​
 +Eg 230V / 50hz. Do not mix and match frequencies and voltages, or parts from different regions.
  
-**Generator Sizing** 
  
-It is possible to overload generators with the power demanded by the Multi'​s charger. The following generator sizings are indicative of those sizes are appropriate for the charging potential of the various multis. It is still possible to overload these generator sizings with large loads, and flat batteries using the PowerAssist function, so they should be treated as safe minimums to eliminate this as a potential cause of issues. ​+==== Generator Sizing ====
  
-2 kVa - 800VA Multi+It is possible to overload generators with the power demanded by the Multi's charger. The following generator sizings are indicative of those sizes are appropriate for the charging potential of the various multis. It is still possible to overload these generator sizings with large loads, and flat batteries using the PowerAssist function, so they should be treated as safe minimums to eliminate this as a potential cause of issues. A bigger generator is usually better. ​
  
-2.5 kVa -  1200VA Multi+^ Inverter Charger Size ^ Minimum Recommended Generator Size ^ 240V AC Input Current Limit ^ 
 +| 800VA | 2 kVa | 5A | 
 +| 1200VA | 2.5 kVa | 7A | 
 +| 1600VA | 3 kVa | 10A | 
 +| 3000VA | 5 kVa | 16A | 
 +| 5000VA | 8 kVa | 25A | 
  
-3 kVa - 1600VA Multi+If your generator is smaller than the recommended size for your inverter/​charger,​ you will definitely need to adjust the settings on the inverter/​charger and reduce the AC input current limit, and/or a DC charge current limit to prevent overloading the generator.
  
-5 kVa - 3000VA Multi+==== Operation ====
  
-8 kVa - 5000VA Multi 
- 
-**Operation** 
  
 It is important to note that the inverter/​charger may take a minute or more to synchronise (though it can be much quicker). Treat the equipment with patience if the settings are thought to be correct. It is important to note that the inverter/​charger may take a minute or more to synchronise (though it can be much quicker). Treat the equipment with patience if the settings are thought to be correct.
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-**Software Changes**+==== Software Changes ​==== 
  
 The settings which you should attempt first are '​Disable UPS mode' and '​Enable Dynamic Current limiting'​. These compromise features, but maintain the quality of the power supply. ​ The settings which you should attempt first are '​Disable UPS mode' and '​Enable Dynamic Current limiting'​. These compromise features, but maintain the quality of the power supply. ​
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 **AC low disconnect:​** low limit: below this value, the MultiPlus will disconnect (default = 180Vac). **AC low disconnect:​** low limit: below this value, the MultiPlus will disconnect (default = 180Vac).
  
-**AC Low connect:** minimum value: at this value or any higher value, the MultiPlus will reconnect after having disconnected (default = 187Vac).+On generators where the output voltage drops under load, setting ​this value to a higher value can help resolve inverter overload shutdowns.
  
 +The reason this happens is that the Multi will synchronise and follow the generator voltage as it sags.
 +
 +If the generator is disconnected under load (either due to low-voltage disconnection,​ stalling, lack of fuel, etc) then when the Multi switches back to inverter mode; it must immediately supply all the power required by the loads at that same low voltage (and subsequent higher current).
 +
 +As overload is driven by current, not power, this can result in an overload.
 +
 +By increasing this minimum voltage level, you tell the inverter/​charger switch to inverter mode sooner, at higher voltage and thus lower AC current, and potentially prevent the overload from occurring.
 +
 +**AC Low connect:** minimum value: at this value or any higher value, the MultiPlus will reconnect after having disconnected (default = 187Vac).
 ===== 1.4 Maximum voltage levels ===== ===== 1.4 Maximum voltage levels =====
  
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 **AC high connect:** maximum value: at this value or any lower value, the MultiPlus will reconnect after having disconnected (default = 265Vac). **AC high connect:** maximum value: at this value or any lower value, the MultiPlus will reconnect after having disconnected (default = 265Vac).
 +
 +
 +
 +===== 1.5 Loss of mains detection (LOM) =====
 +
 +For Full information on Loss of Mains detection, please see [[ve.bus:​grid-codes-and-loss-of-mains-detection|this more detailed explanation.]]
 +
 +
 +===== Example configuration in VEConfigure =====
 +
 +  * A generator that requires LOM to be disabled.
 +  * Generator on AC in 1, and grid on AC in 2, as recommended.
 +
 +{{ :​ve.bus:​grid-code.png?​direct |}}
  
  
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 {{:​veconfigure:​charger_tab.jpg?​nolink&​400|}} {{:​veconfigure:​charger_tab.jpg?​nolink&​400|}}
  
-**Derating of the power factor**+===== 3.1 Derating of the power factor ​=====
  
 Some generators have a waveform which makes it difficult to charge with the normal charge mechanism. Through activating the "​**Weak AC input**"​ function, another mechanism is used which will enable the MultiPlus to charge under practically any condition. Some generators have a waveform which makes it difficult to charge with the normal charge mechanism. Through activating the "​**Weak AC input**"​ function, another mechanism is used which will enable the MultiPlus to charge under practically any condition.
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 This leading or lagging power factor will have the effect of demanding more kVa from the generator for the same or less DC Watts delivered to the batteries. You may need to further reduce the DC Current Limit in the Charger tab of VEConfigure if the generator continues to overload after changing this setting. This leading or lagging power factor will have the effect of demanding more kVa from the generator for the same or less DC Watts delivered to the batteries. You may need to further reduce the DC Current Limit in the Charger tab of VEConfigure if the generator continues to overload after changing this setting.
 +
  
 **Important note:** **Important note:**
  
 A detailed description of all settings is available in the VE-Configure help menu, and more instructions are available in our manuals. A detailed description of all settings is available in the VE-Configure help menu, and more instructions are available in our manuals.
-===== Disqus ​=====+ 
 +====== 4. In the “Inverter” tab of VE-Configure:​ ====== 
 + 
 +===== 4.1 PowerAssist ===== 
 + 
 +The [[https://​www.victronenergy.com/​upload/​documents/​White-paper-Achieving-the-impossible-EN.pdf|PowerAssist feature]] can be extremely useful, however it restricts the minimum AC input current limit and this may exceed your generators ability to supply. The [[https://​www.victronenergy.com/​blog/​2018/​04/​20/​multiplus-quattro-inverter-chargers-improved-current-limits/​|exact restriction varies between models - see here for the list.]] 
 + 
 +If you have a small generator and have trouble getting connected or staying connected, Disable PowerAssist to allow the device to reduce the AC input current limit.  
 + 
 + 
 + 
 +====== Still not connecting? ====== 
 + 
 +If the unit is still not connecting, switch the Multi over to Charger only mode.  
 + 
 +Try with a different generator. 
 + 
 +There can be issues with generators with Residual Current Devices (RCD'​s),​ control electronics or circuit breakers. There is some discussion about troubleshooting these issues on this [[https://​community.victronenergy.com/​questions/​1702/​multiplus-with-generator-and-residual-current-devi.html|Victron Community Question - Multiplus With Generator And Residual Current Device]], however as troubleshooting and correcting these faults have serious safety implications,​ they are best discussed with a local installer who has appropriate electrical qualifications,​ or your Victron Dealer. 
 + 
 + 
 +If there is still no connection, contact your dealer or distributor. Tell them the steps that you have taken already to attempt to get it to work and they can help from there. 
 + 
 + 
 +====== Further Reading ====== 
 + 
 +There have been extensive articles and documentation written about generators and their interaction with Victron systems. This includes troubleshooting,​ real-world application and theory. 
 + 
 +[[https://​www.victronenergy.com/​blog/​2016/​08/​29/​multiplus-magic-small-generator-big-power/​|MultiPlus magic: Small generator, big power]] - In depth blog article with a real world application of a sailing yacht. 
 + 
 +[[https://​www.victronenergy.com/​upload/​documents/​White-paper-Using-the-MultiPlus-to-reduce-operating-cost-of-a-generator-EN.pdf|Using the Multiplus to reduce operating cost of a generator]] - Fuel Saving White-paper. 
 + 
 +[[https://​www.victronenergy.com/​live/​auto-generator-start-stop:​start|Automatic Generator start/​stop]] - Outline and reference for generator auto-start functionality in Victron systems. 
 + 
 +[[https://​community.victronenergy.com/​topics/​generator.html|Victron Community Questions and Answers about generators.]] 
 + 
 +[[https://​www.victronenergy.com/​upload/​documents/​Honda%20white%20paper%20GB.pdf|Victron Inverter/​Chargers and Honda Generators]] 
 + 
 +[[https://​www.victronenergy.com/​blog/​2018/​04/​20/​multiplus-quattro-inverter-chargers-improved-current-limits/​|MultiPlus & Quattro Inverter/​Chargers:​ Minimum AC Input Current Limits]] 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 + 
 +===== DISQUS ​=====
 ~~DISQUS~~ ~~DISQUS~~
multiplus_faq.1507011879.txt.gz · Last modified: 2017-10-03 08:24 by guystewart