multiplus_faq
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multiplus_faq [2018-01-15 02:52] – [3. Example configuration in VEConfigure] guystewart | multiplus_faq [2019-12-01 23:50] – updated ve-configure to veconfigure guy_stewart | ||
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- | What to do when a MultiPlus, or Quattro, does not accept generator power | + | __What |
- | ---- | + | __ |
Power supply from a generator is typically more variable than a power supply from shore or the main grid. The MultiPlus is sensitive to this and will reject power that is outside of it's programmed settings causing the unit to not connect, synchronise or charge. | Power supply from a generator is typically more variable than a power supply from shore or the main grid. The MultiPlus is sensitive to this and will reject power that is outside of it's programmed settings causing the unit to not connect, synchronise or charge. | ||
- | **Selecting a Generator** | + | ==== Selecting a Generator |
Some generators are more suitable than others for use with inverter/ | Some generators are more suitable than others for use with inverter/ | ||
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Inverter based generators have a characteristic where the motor continues to run even if the unit has electronically overloaded and no longer delivering power. It may appear that the generator is operating and the system is charging when it isn't. These units are also more easily overloaded by surge loads, as they are electronically limited rather than mechanically. | Inverter based generators have a characteristic where the motor continues to run even if the unit has electronically overloaded and no longer delivering power. It may appear that the generator is operating and the system is charging when it isn't. These units are also more easily overloaded by surge loads, as they are electronically limited rather than mechanically. | ||
+ | Make sure that the generator, inverter/ | ||
+ | Eg 230V / 50hz. Do not mix and match frequencies and voltages, or parts from different regions. | ||
- | **Generator Sizing** | ||
- | |||
- | It is possible to overload generators with the power demanded by the Multi' | ||
- | 2 kVa - 800VA Multi | + | ==== Generator Sizing ==== |
- | 2.5 kVa - 1200VA | + | It is possible to overload generators with the power demanded by the Multi's charger. The following generator sizings are indicative of those sizes are appropriate for the charging potential of the various multis. It is still possible to overload these generator sizings with large loads, and flat batteries using the PowerAssist function, so they should be treated as safe minimums to eliminate this as a potential cause of issues. A bigger generator is usually better. |
- | 3 kVa - 1600VA | + | ^ Inverter Charger Size ^ Minimum Recommended Generator Size ^ 240V AC Input Current Limit ^ |
+ | | 800VA | 2 kVa | 5A | | ||
+ | | 1200VA | 2.5 kVa | 7A | | ||
+ | | 1600VA | ||
+ | | 3000VA | 5 kVa | 16A | | ||
+ | | 5000VA | 8 kVa | 25A | | ||
- | 5 kVa - 3000VA Multi | + | If your generator is smaller than the recommended size for your inverter/ |
- | 8 kVa - 5000VA Multi | + | ==== Operation ==== |
- | **Operation** | ||
It is important to note that the inverter/ | It is important to note that the inverter/ | ||
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- | **Software Changes** | + | ==== Software Changes |
The settings which you should attempt first are ' | The settings which you should attempt first are ' | ||
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Warning: changing these settings will allow to feed-through current that may be of insufficient quality for the electrical requirements of your equipment. | Warning: changing these settings will allow to feed-through current that may be of insufficient quality for the electrical requirements of your equipment. | ||
- | For information on VE-Configure | + | For information on VEConfigure |
- | ====== 1. In the “Grid” tab of VE-Configure: ====== | + | ====== 1. In the “Grid” tab of VEConfigure: ====== |
| | ||
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**AC low disconnect: | **AC low disconnect: | ||
- | On generators where the output voltage drops under load, setting this value to a higher value can help solve shutdowns on overload. | + | On generators where the output voltage drops under load, setting this value to a higher value can help resolve inverter |
- | **AC Low connect:** minimum value: at this value or any higher value, | + | The reason |
+ | If the generator is disconnected under load (either due to low-voltage disconnection, | ||
+ | |||
+ | As overload is driven by current, not power, this can result in an overload. | ||
+ | |||
+ | By increasing this minimum voltage level, you tell the inverter/ | ||
+ | |||
+ | **AC Low connect:** minimum value: at this value or any higher value, the MultiPlus will reconnect after having disconnected (default = 187Vac). | ||
===== 1.4 Maximum voltage levels ===== | ===== 1.4 Maximum voltage levels ===== | ||
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===== 1.5 Loss of mains detection (LOM) ===== | ===== 1.5 Loss of mains detection (LOM) ===== | ||
- | For Full information on Loss of Mains detection, please | + | Loss of mains detection |
- | ==== What is LOM detection? ==== | + | For large and stable Generators Type B LOM will work, and is safer. |
+ | However, if you are experiencing issues with voltage, frequency or power fluctuations, | ||
- | LOM is an automatic process that detects a change and loss of the generator/ | + | **Disabling |
- | ==== Why is LOM detection required? ==== | + | Disabling the LOM on an input connected to the grid is only allowed when other external safety equipment |
+ | Disabling the LOM on an input connected to generator can be done, but then other methods / warning signs / physical lockout safety measures must be provided. Ensuring that any installer that will work on the generator, wiring or system, will make sure to also switch off or otherwise disconnect the Inverter/ | ||
- | The purpose | + | For Full information on Loss of Mains detection, please see [[ve.bus:grid-codes-and-loss-of-mains-detection|this more detailed explanation.]] |
- | + | ||
- | ==== How does LOM detection relate to overload shutdowns? ==== | + | |
- | + | ||
- | To detect a loss of mains, the inverter/ | + | |
- | + | ||
- | When connected to a generator, with a long extension cable or long ‘last mile’ cable, the pushing and pulling on the grid does create high currents, and as a result the inverter/ | + | |
- | + | ||
- | ==== LOM detection | + | |
- | LOM detection comes in two flavours: **Type A** and **Type B**. | + | |
- | + | ||
- | **Type A** is the strongest form LOM detection, which results in the quickest detection time. It requires a low impedance connection to the grid (short, well sized cables). LOM **Type A** will not work with generators. | + | |
- | + | ||
- | **Type B** has a more soft approach. Resulting in a slightly longer detection time. Still acceptable in several countries (South-Africa, | + | |
- | + | ||
- | For generators on which also **Type B** does not work, see Disabling LOM. | + | |
- | + | ||
- | + | ||
- | ==== Disabling LOM ==== | + | |
- | + | ||
- | Besides choosing Type A and B, it is also possible to disable the LOM entirely. | + | |
- | Note disabling the LOM on an input connected to the grid is only allowed when other external safety equipment is installed. | + | |
- | + | ||
- | Disabling the LOM on an input connected to generator can be done, but then other methods / warning signs must be provided. Ensuring that any installer that will work on the generator will make sure to also switch off or otherwise disconnect the Inverter/ | + | |
- | {{ : | + | **Example configuration in VEConfigure** |
- | ===== Example configuration in VEConfigure | + | |
* A generator that requires LOM to be disabled. | * A generator that requires LOM to be disabled. | ||
* Generator on AC in 1, and grid on AC in 2, as recommended. | * Generator on AC in 1, and grid on AC in 2, as recommended. | ||
- | {{ :ve.bus:grid-code.png?direct |}} | + | {{::lom_generator.jpg?direct&400|}} |
- | ===== Questions ===== | ||
- | ==== Q1: Where can I get the password? ==== | ||
- | A: From your dealer. | + | ====== 2. In the “General” tab of VEConfigure: ====== |
- | + | ||
- | ==== Q2: Can I use ESS in a vehicle or a boat? ==== | + | |
- | + | ||
- | A: No you cannot. After unplugging the shore cord it can take up to a few seconds for the system to detect the loss of mains and open the back-feed relay. During those seconds, the shore power plug will be `live`: there is 230 Volts AC on the terminals. The exact number of seconds differs per country and depends on the local requirements. | + | |
- | + | ||
- | The same applies to other solution where the wiring is not protected against accidental removing, for example a simple cable with end-user removable plug, such as a portable power supply. | + | |
- | + | ||
- | ==== Q3: Can I use ESS with a generator? ==== | + | |
- | + | ||
- | A: Yes you can. Note that the only installation type where that makes sense is a land based installation (no boat, and no vehicle). A Quattro must be used with AC input 1 connected to the generator, and AC input 2 connected to the grid. The role of the generator will be to provide power during a long grid failure. | + | |
- | + | ||
- | Some, bigger or better quality generators, will be able to work with LOM **Type B**. For other less stable generators it will be required to disable LOM entirely. In that case make the installation such that it is still safe: no simple extensions cords, use enclosed wiring cabinets with warnings on the outside and/or an external ENS. | + | |
- | + | ||
- | ==== Q4: I use ESS, but have disabled feed-back, is a grid-code still required? ==== | + | |
- | + | ||
- | A: Yes, also in this case LOM is required to make for a safe and also local regulations compliant system. Running ESS with disabled-feed-back is still not the same as using a Multi in its default configuration without ESS. | + | |
- | + | ||
- | + | ||
- | ====== 2. In the “General” tab of VE-Configure: ====== | + | |
{{:: | {{:: | ||
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===== 2.2 AC Input Current Limit ===== | ===== 2.2 AC Input Current Limit ===== | ||
- | The charger on the Multiplus is very powerful. If you have an existing generator that is not able to supply the maximum charging current of the Multi, you will need to adjust the AC Input Current Limit in the General Tab of VE-Configure. | + | The charger on the Multiplus is very powerful. If you have an existing generator that is not able to supply the maximum charging current of the Multi, you will need to adjust the AC Input Current Limit in the General Tab of VEConfigure. |
A reasonable starting point for the AC Current input limit is 80% of the generator capacity in Watts. For example: | A reasonable starting point for the AC Current input limit is 80% of the generator capacity in Watts. For example: | ||
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- | ====== 3. In the " | + | ====== 3. In the " |
{{: | {{: | ||
- | **Derating of the power factor** | + | ===== 3.1 Derating of the power factor |
Some generators have a waveform which makes it difficult to charge with the normal charge mechanism. Through activating the " | Some generators have a waveform which makes it difficult to charge with the normal charge mechanism. Through activating the " | ||
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This leading or lagging power factor will have the effect of demanding more kVa from the generator for the same or less DC Watts delivered to the batteries. You may need to further reduce the DC Current Limit in the Charger tab of VEConfigure if the generator continues to overload after changing this setting. | This leading or lagging power factor will have the effect of demanding more kVa from the generator for the same or less DC Watts delivered to the batteries. You may need to further reduce the DC Current Limit in the Charger tab of VEConfigure if the generator continues to overload after changing this setting. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Effectively, | ||
**Important note:** | **Important note:** | ||
- | A detailed description of all settings is available in the VE-Configure | + | A detailed description of all settings is available in the VEConfigure |
- | ===== Disqus | + | |
+ | ====== 4. In the “Inverter” tab of VEConfigure: | ||
+ | |||
+ | ===== 4.1 PowerAssist ===== | ||
+ | |||
+ | The [[https:// | ||
+ | |||
+ | If you have a small generator and have trouble getting connected or staying connected, Disable PowerAssist to allow the device to reduce the AC input current limit. | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | ====== Still not connecting? ====== | ||
+ | |||
+ | If the unit is still not connecting, switch the Multi over to Charger only mode. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Try with a different generator. | ||
+ | |||
+ | As troubleshooting and correcting these faults have serious safety implications, | ||
+ | |||
+ | There can be issues with generators with Residual Current Devices (RCD' | ||
+ | |||
+ | Simplify the AC wiring, With everything safely shut down and tested for voltage, disconnect the AC-Output active, neutral and earth. Direct wire in the generator connections, | ||
+ | |||
+ | If there is still no connection, contact your dealer or distributor. Tell them the steps that you have taken already to attempt to get it to work and they can help from there. | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | ====== Further Reading ====== | ||
+ | |||
+ | There have been extensive articles and documentation written about generators and their interaction with Victron systems. This includes troubleshooting, | ||
+ | |||
+ | [[https:// | ||
+ | |||
+ | [[https:// | ||
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+ | [[https:// | ||
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+ | [[https:// | ||
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+ | [[https:// | ||
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+ | [[https:// | ||
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+ | |||
+ | ===== DISQUS | ||
~~DISQUS~~ | ~~DISQUS~~ |
multiplus_faq.txt · Last modified: 2023-02-16 01:50 by guy_stewart